SInGAPORE_AIR From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 12557 posts, RR: 15 Posted (2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15473 times:
According to German weekly magazine, Wirtschaftswoche, Airbus has written to customers warning them of potential further delays in Airbus A380 deliveries.
It is also highly questionable "whether we will be able to manage to produce four (A380) aircraft a month as planned in the foreseeable future," said the magazine.
Airbus is conducting a review of the A380 programme.
Airbus delivered the first A380 to Singapore Airlines 18 months late. Singapore Airlines is currently the largest operator of the A380 offering premium products bringing Travel In A New Light
Source: AFP. No link. Will retrieve the German article now
Not an employee or representative of Singapore Airlines Limited, or any related company, or their views thereof.
Davescj From United States, joined Jun 2007, 1240 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15484 times:
Any word as to what is causing the delay? I would have thought once they had production going, they'd b good to go. Anything like Boeing 787 with problems in the supply chain?
Singapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 12557 posts, RR: 15 Reply 2, posted (2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15467 times:
My German skills (A* at G.C.S.E. ) have someone deserted me but here goes:
Thomas Enders is annoyed at the A380 programme.
The results of Thomas Enders' investigation into the A380 programme has not finished, but the results are clear: there will be a shift in the delivery schedule.
The company has already prepared a letter advising customers of possible delays.
13 A380s will "probably" be delivered in 2008.
However, the internal target of 25 in 2009 will probably be missed.
Apparently??? MSN026 is three months late (presumably from the current delivery schedule)
Moo From Falkland Islands (Malvinas), joined May 2007, 2090 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15292 times:
Quoting Davescj (Reply 1): Any word as to what is causing the delay? I would have thought once they had production going, they'd b good to go. Anything like Boeing 787 with problems in the supply chain?
Capacity issues - there's only so many airframes that can be rewired at any one time, and if they aren't going as fast as previously planned for, then delays result. Its not something you can take on extra workforce for either, as its only a temporary bottleneck - what would you do with the extra workforce in 18 months time?
Robffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15207 times:
Wirtschaftswoche reports that airline specific changes are partly the reason for the ongoing challange to deliver as planed:
Quote: Vor allem die Komplexität des A380 macht den Ingenieuren zu schaffen. Da jede Fluggesellschaft eine eigene, höchst variantenreiche Innenausstattung wählt, ist die Fertigung sehr aufwendig.
Own translation:
Above all the complexity of the A380 makes it difficult for the engineers. As each airline has its own, most variant-rich interior equipment, the manufacturing is very complex.
Kire From Austria, joined Mar 2008, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 15084 times:
Additional workforces thrown into a project in a bottleneck situation do more harm than help. By the way, it's not easy to find (good) engineers - there are not enough on the market. Declining numbers of students in engineering disciplines - at least in old Europe, together with declining birth rates already limit companies' potential growth. That's true as well for blue collar workers.
Just wonder how the more and more complex airline specific features and the labour market sitation will affect the 787 production ramp up...
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 9637 posts, RR: 57 Reply 7, posted (2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 15027 times:
Given the current sales rate, it would be a very bad business move to ramp to four per month even if they could. Three per month would be a much wiser production rate.
Slz396 From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 1891 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14960 times:
It is the ramping up of industrial projects the scale of the 787/A380 which is causing the head-aches for the engineers really.
Seems like far too many people in the sales and strategic planning departments expected that once their newest plane had had its EIS, all they needed to do was to open up the throttle of the production line and pump the copies out as fast as they could, but it now turns out that customer specifications have become so much more complex over the last 10 years that planes from different customers are basically almost sub-versions of the original plane and as such it takes an awful long time before the manufacturer has good grips on all those different sub-versions indeed.
Boeing is finding out the hard way too that they'll not not out of the wood after the EIS of the first 787 with ANA and in fact is sounds that EIS of the 787 with other customers will be delayed by more than the EIS at ANA as well, a delay which will be increasing as the customers finds itself further down on the delivery list: Monarch is publicly talking about 30 months delay, which is 2.5 years!
It seems both manufacturers -in their effort to score as much sales as possible- have counted on a far too aggressive increase in production output soon after EIS and will have to revise their delivery schedules. Bad news for the existing customers and even worse for those who haven't ordered yet, as it could mean it will be virtually impossible to get any new modern plane (A380, 787, A350) in your fleet before 2015.
Yep, those 777s and A330 will be produced for a loooong time to come.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 9637 posts, RR: 57 Reply 10, posted (2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14878 times:
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8): it now turns out that customer specifications have become so much more complex over the last 10 years that planes from different customers are basically almost sub-versions of the original plane and as such it takes an awful long time before the manufacturer has good grips on all those different sub-versions indeed.
Actually, the trend is in the opposite direction. Airbus and especially Boeing are allowing customers far fewer customization options than in decades past.
Slz396 From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 1891 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14839 times:
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 10): the trend is in the opposite direction. Airbus and especially Boeing are allowing customers far fewer customization options than in decades past.
I am not talking about the number of options, but the complexity of them...
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 14535 posts, RR: 41 Reply 12, posted (2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14783 times:
I'm not sure I understand why new threads need to be started about the same A380 or 787 delays just because a German newspaper writes an article. Don't these articles just reinforce/rehash previous articles? Can't they just be linked in previous threads on the topics? Is there something inherently special about german news sources that they warrant their own threads each and every time they print something?
Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 4): Above all the complexity of the A380 makes it difficult for the engineers. As each airline has its own, most variant-rich interior equipment, the manufacturing is very complex.
Blaming the customers again. I thought the new management had moved past that.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
7673mech From United States, joined Mar 2004, 63 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 14176 times:
Quoting Kire (Reply 5): Just wonder how the more and more complex airline specific features and the labour market sitation will affect the 787 production ramp up...
Boeing has been ramping up for the last 2-3 years with labour. That won't be an issue.
As far as customer opotions go ... that remains to be seen.
TaromA380 From Romania, joined Sep 2005, 276 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 14017 times:
Ok, I have enough of announcements of a possible delay. WHEN will they say for sure "we deliver this, we postpone that" ?
And what's happening again there in Toulouse ? They had plenty of time to get the rewiring in order, to improve it and the speed of the necessary work.
What's happening with the managers in the aviation industry (A & B together), they seems to fail, fail then fail again these times.
Oh wait, I got it. Airbus was worried that Boeing will take the crown of the most late aircraft around, so they increased the delay of A380 by 3 new months.
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 2179 posts, RR: 55 Reply 16, posted (2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13883 times:
It's quite interesting the article also reports about quality problems with parts from a French supplier (discovered during a test flight), allegedly not affecting safety.
Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 4): Above all the complexity of the A380 makes it difficult for the engineers. As each airline has its own, most variant-rich interior equipment, the manufacturing is very complex.
Important to note: Airbus has NOT officially said so. The writer suggests that to be "obvious".
Quoting Davescj (Reply 6): It was posted that they are REwiring, what is the problem? Just a change? or change of design?
Apparently there are problems with changing from manual to automatic wiring.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12): I'm not sure I understand why new threads need to be started about the same A380 or 787 delays just because a German newspaper writes an article.
Do you also say that about other countries' news sources?
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12): Is there something inherently special about german news sources that they warrant their own threads each and every time they print something?
Every user is free to start a new thread about any subject which may be interesting for others - and those who don't think the thread is worth it, aren't forced to take part in the discussion.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12): Blaming the customers again. I thought the new management had moved past that.
Neither the management nor another Airbus official has made such a statement in that article.
R2rho From France, joined Feb 2007, 524 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (2 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13183 times:
I'm surprised at these rumors as so far the 13 aircraft target for 2008 is still valid and achievable, though quite ambitious (11-12 is a safer bet I think). In any case these are hypothetical possible delays, and the way I see it, nothing to do with the 6+6+6+... month delays in production, but rather any issues that arise prior to delivering such highly customized aircraft to the different airlines. Maybe not applicable to the whole program but rather to specific aircraft or airlines. Now as for the possible reduction to 3 from 4 aircraft per month, that would be a different story.
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8): it now turns out that customer specifications have become so much more complex over the last 10 years that planes from different customers are basically almost sub-versions of the original plane and as such it takes an awful long time before the manufacturer has good grips on all those different sub-versions indeed.
That is quite true. Prior to delivery, specific tests have to be carried out on the cabin for the Head of Version of each airline. Things like smoke detection, air conditioning and cabin comfort, crew rest compartments, galley cooling, the showers for Emirates, and God knows what for the other airlines. This obvioulsy is a major pain in the ass for Airbus and can, if problems are encountered, generate small delays which then accumulate.
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